Category: the Rant Board
Today I heard of 2 rescues involving people who had obvious and complete disregard for the dangers, of messing about on the water,I could not believe the ignorance and stupidity of these people who are now dead! thanks to their attitude of "ohh it will never happen to me! life jackets there for wimps" on the sea front at Scarborough there are large signs warning of high tides and dangerous waves but it seems these signs were invisible to these eejits as they played chicked with 6ft freezing waves..
....plus on treacherous Loch Lomond in western Scotland 2 people who were not wearing lifejackets, or life-lines, fell out of a power boat and were drowned..The rescue services are now putting their lives at risk looking for these eejits and at the expense of other climbers walkers ect who might be in dire need.
..if there's 1 thing that really amazes me its the complete and utter, ignorant and childish stupidity, of the human race...
Generally speaking, yes, it's true. In Iceland we have to spend lots of money trying to save tourists who go up to the mountains without letting anyone know, in the middle of winter, without GPS and satellite phones just because the weather looks calm. We get really severe winter storms and the weather cn change in a matter of minutes and sadly sometimes they or their insurance even refuse to pay for the cost of searching for them.
But, people are like that, I mean, drugs is another clear example. Everyone is aware of the potential addiction and risk of taking drugs yet, guess what, they go right ahead and take their drugs, smoke their pot because pot is ok or the occasional ecstacy is ok because "I am not going to get addicted" then surpisingly, even if 80% of them never will be addicted the remaining 20 steal and murder etc due to their drug addiction and fuel huge rogue economies, I don't even feel those who sell the drugs are that much at fault if people are stupid enough to actually want them and, yes, I realize pot e.g. is actually beneficial in certain cases and borderline drug, but I still don't understand why people need to find out if they're ok with smoking it or not.
Cheers
-B
ah but where do you draw the line. I agree, if people go out and do stupid things, then hey should bear the consequences. after all, if you go swimming on a beach where there are clear warning signs and you get swept out to see, then you have only yourself to blame, but can we draw comparisons with other things? i.e. if someone smokes, should they be refused treatment on the NHS if they develop lung cancer? after all, the signs are there, everyone knows that cigarettes cause lung cancer. Should an alcoholic receive treatment for his liver problems? after all, they were self inflicted.
I think that those people deserved what they got! I don't think anyone should be rescued from dangerous situations if the dangers were evident before those people began to become victims of the dangers.
Wangel I have to disagree while I am angry with these people
does this mean we should refrain from rescuing victims of a house fire, because Dad exhausted after work, fell asleep with a burning cigarette in his hand...or should we leave a climber to freeze to death, due to an unexpected deteriation in the weather, NO! because that is tantamount to manslaughter.
no I think to say they deserved what they got is slightly harsh. I think they were stupid, and the fact they died as a result of that is testament to the fact, but I don't think anyone deserves to die.
Well in the case of a fire the family didn't know he'd do that, so it wasn't there fault therefore they deserve a rescue and as for the climber, there's no need for him to be climbing so high anyway but if the weather is unexpectedly changing that's not his fault either.
I'm afraid that I am somewhat disconcerted by the lack of room for the idea that some people are not as wise as your good selves. Some people do daring things, some people do stupid things. Now let me ask you this: where would we be without the daring people? where would we be without Joseph Lister, who made himself highly flammable by exposing himself to pure oxygen but discovered oxygen in the process? To say that people's stupidity should deprive them of the opportunity to be rescued is silly, and proposterous. If we have the resources to rescue them, we should do so. They may be required to pay the costs of that rescue if their enterprise were sufficiently foolhardy, I've no problem with that. But this you deserve what you get mentality is misplaced and wrong. Not everyone who's injured is a daft swimmer who's ignored all the warning signs, you know. even those swimmers deserve to be rescued. They should not be able to sue for their injuries, but they should be rescued. And before anyone shouts at me and says that swimmers and other foolhardy people can sue for their injuries, don't bother. They can't.
no no ll I never said that people didn't deserve t be rescued. in fact in my post above I said that no one "deserved to die", however stupid they were
LL makes a good point. Maybe what these people did was stupid, but we all do stupid thigns, and some discoveries come out of the most stupid of thigns. So ... we've gotta accept all sorts of people, daring or no. Lol.
Caitlin
I wasn't rreferring to you, sugarbaby, I was in fact referring to the idea expressed most clearly by the quangle wangle, that some seem to harbour about this topic.
Wangel again your wrong..The family on Loch Lomond were apparently caught out, by a sudden detieoration
in the weather,the Scottish lochs are famous for their capricious nature...
and as for the climber,he would climb for the sheer pleasure of being among superb scenery and the challenge of achieving his goal,which is entirely different, from taking liberties with nature,climbers are very much aware of the weather and conditions on the hill ect, as should anyone be who ventures out to the wild places.
Wangel again your wrong..The family on Loch Lomond were apparently caught out, by a sudden detieoration
in the weather,the Scottish lochs are famous for their capricious nature...
and as for the climber,he would climb for the sheer pleasure of being among superb scenery and the challenge of achieving his goal,which is entirely different, from taking liberties with nature,climbers are very much aware of the weather and conditions on the hill ect, as should anyone be who ventures out to the wild places.
Wainderful wangel is more often than not wrongg, due to his insatiable appetite for superficial arguments, sweeping generalisations, views on law and order that would not be out of place if they appeared in a medical report for the third Reich, and finally, non sequiturs!
Quite right Goblin climbers are selfish, they should in my opinion find better ways of occupying their time. I did say that if the weather suddenly changes then it's not the fault of the individuals who fall victim of it if they didn't know the changes would occur.
Be that as it may, Wainderful wangel, you still don't know what a non sequitur is, do you? Climbers are selfish? You know, they don't just go up there for the walk! I suppose that the space exploration initiatives are also selfish, are they? and what about cricketers, footballers, rugby players who get themselves into dangerous situations, get injured and then have to receive treatment that could be given to someone else like some lazy arse who doesn't take any risks at all and who does nothing with his time all day? Are they selfish too? Really, for someone who claims to study history and english, inter alia, the absence on your part of an ability to construct logical argument and go beyond superficial levels of critical analysis is baffling, especially as these subjects contain an awful lot of discursive material. even if, which I accept, this is not a eerious discussion board and you don't approach it in the same way that you might approach academic work, you should nonetheless be capable, given your study of history and English, of more sophistication than you demonstrate with your eyes closed.
The selfish climbers are usually found up K2 and other high altitude peaks,man yet again you have demonstrated your complete ignorance of the subject...it really is quite astonishing...
To add to the story on Loch Lomond anyone regardless of experience,intelligence,sobriety or common sense, can hire anything from a rowing boat, to a very powerful cruiser, for a sail around the loch.This money -grabbing practice has led to countless accidents and several deaths,
the two girls 1 survived, were alone in the dinghy, they were not wearing lifejackets, or a safety line...what was their Father thinking!...
I don't know what he was thinking, but I'm sure that after reading that contribution, wainderful Wangel is thinking they ought to have been subject to some horrific experiment, giving their lives that others might live to sit in front of the telly all day long, watching steve Owen catch snakes. After all, these people are valueless to society, aren't they?
People who participate in team sports or high profile sports provide many people with entertainment. Most of what is done in space is a waste of money and that money ought to be spent improving things on Earth rather than increasing our knowlege of other planets which we really don't need to know about!
What!? I have just come out of Failte, where the craic is 90, and I have consumed a few good pints of Harp lager to be confronted by a pile of utter crap...Honestly WW I have had more meaningful conversations with my son!
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....And why shouldn't we explore space and/or the wilderness,such vast expanses of wild terrain such as the Karakoram or the Arctic, exist to bring us arrogant humans down to size,we definately need a good fright now and again...Yes I will agree that sportsmen and women, provide us with entertainment but often at the expense of their lives ....In Grindlewald tourists can line up to watch climbers struggle up the Eiger, why? they want to see these brave men and women die!
hehehe think that's why most watch formula1, they wanna see a crash!
Exploring Space is too expensive and we don't need to know most of what we are trying to find out. That money could be spent helping people in the developing world for example, or finding cures for diseases, or building new hospitals, or liberating people from tyranical dictatorial regimes.
Hmm, well, again WW I agree with you to a point but not completely.
Lots of technologies that were developed either for military or space exploration purposes have, in fact, found their way into our daily lives, the jet engine e.g. was developed by the Nazis and first tested by the Japanese during WW II space engineering has yielded a lot of materials and other science facts and secrets that have helped us unlock a wealth of opportunities, even the internet is the bi product of a military development. I agree though that exploring mars is not exactly our priority right now but then again mars could be full of valuable minerals that in the future could be brought back or used, and as for the "dictotirlaa regimes" well eehm by whose standards are they so, the U.S.'s (the country that breaks all international conventions, tortures prisoners etc), I mean in other country's eyes it's moving towards that .. and the Irq military operation was less than convincing so far so out of the two I'd rather they spent my federal tax money on exploring new oppotunities in space, but that's just me.
WW I thought that was already happening isn't America intent on cleaning up the world if so, they should start by disinfecting their own domestic mess...
The chances of anything coming from Mars, were a million to one, he said. But how could he have ever calculated those odds if the Quangle Wangle had been in charge? Honestly, if his ideas were mainstream it would mean death to all literature, death to romance, imagination, the unknown, the mysteries of the galaxy, and if you weren't performing your function as a cog in the machine of society, you'd be sent to Mr frankenstein's laboratory.
Anyone read the book "Hard Times" by Charles Dickens? the wainderful wangel is very much like Mr Bounderby in that book.
If I had my way there'd be encouragement of literature and romance, and imagination. The unknown would be explored but selectively so that the money would only be spent on the most essential discoveries to benefit society.
Hmm, literature and romance do little to advance our technologies or improve our status of living, I mean don't we have enough romance novels .. seriously.
who's to know what discoveries would, and wouldn't benefit society. and from imagination comes discovery after all, so what you're saying is, imagine, imagine, imagine a story! just don't make it reality.
What I'm saying is that I have no problem with discoveries as long as the cost isn't too high and they will benefit society. Making health related discoveries is benefitial. Yeah it would be great one day to take all of the resources of Mars and bring them to Earth, but I don't think we need to spend so much on Space. Literature and other forms of art are great because they provide their audience with entertainment. Also such forms of art allow people to express themselves or their imagination and that is good because they are channeling their energies positively rather than commiting crime because they've nothing better to do.
Waindderful wangel the eternal flaw that permiates your reasoning is you see everything as hard-edged. You see imagination and discovery as two distinct and completely separate things with no chance of a marriage between them. the reality, however, is quite different as we all jolly well know.
Wangel I agree partly with what your saying and considering that it takes 5 long gruelling years to reach Mars,I think the whole idea is insane and a massive waste of resources,not to mention the colossal risk to the crew,so to contradict my earlier statement we have no business in space surely the Challenger,Columbia and Atlantis disasters will have made that painfully obvious...
Now then gentlemen, I would quite like to go to Mars actually, and wer there to be a mission to the red planet some time in the future, the Lawlord would offer up the benefit of his company for the return trip although I know there are some zoners on this site who are wishing that in my case I only got a single ticket. But I would love to go to Mars at some point after I have completed my exams. And speaking from a purely personal point of view, I'm glad that Waindderful Wangle and Goblin would not be coming along as they'd probably end up killing me. Such is my determination that I shall if necessary start a Lawlordian mission to Mars, to see the cities on her.
And what's all this nonsense about its taking five years? I thought that estimates indicated it would take a good deal less time than that.
Yes it is true that imagination can lead to discoveries. They're trying to make it possible for us to watch TV on mobile phones. Someone used their imagination to form the idea, now someone is trying to discover how to make the idea a reality.
Wangle get back onto the topic of Mars! It's just an issue on which you are weak but I won't let you off the hook. Nor, I suggest, do you yet know what a non sequitur is, which considering I have mentioned it several times now, is a complete non sequitur.
WW, yeah, but oddly the technologies that make it possible to watch tv on mobile phones (or using mobile phones in general) .. well, guess where that technology originated from .. well I'll give you a clue, satellites reside, do you know where? OUt in space .. hence which exploration has brought us to the point where satellites can be used to communicate signals from source to receiver (be it television, radio or phones, or just gps) .. well, I leave you to work that out shall I, with your imagination it shouldn't be too hard now.
Cheers
-B
Well the space-related activity which enabled all the stuff described by you Wildebrew was benefitial to humans and therefore I'd support it. I didn't say that their should be no exploration in space, just that there shouldn't be too much money spent on it when that money could be spent in other areas. Too much money is wasted on space and not all the mitions are necessary.
One could almost say it's a waste of space! hahahahahahahahahaha that was inspired! and just think, Wainderful wangel, if they weren't spending all that money on space so as to give you cause to complain about it, we might never have had that joke! Thank the lord for space exploration.
Why should we thank the lord? were the original explorers looking for heaven.
again wainderful wangel, you have no subtlety, no precision, and but a dull eye for critical argument. Moreover, your formulation of put-downs has one grave error in that they don't work! When I said 'Thank the lord' did I say which lord? It could, after all, have been Lord Rooker, the science minister, who was behind the latest episode of European space exploration, couldn't it? alas, you assumed it was a religious lord, which as I have demonstrated, was a groundless assumption. Take more care old lad, it's for your own good and you'll thank me for it one day, especially if you continue to espouse the doctrines worthy of Goebbels and co as you so often do. It might even cure your perennial non sequitur problem.
Looks like he could find no way of responding to that one.
If goblin, and some others on this sight were in charge of the free world as we know it, it'd all go to hell quite quickly!!!
Here's a fine idea, why don't you, goblin, find a place where you can be a dictator, being as you seem to know so much about everyone and everything.....
Hmmm, soul temptress, this is the third post i've read where you've had nothing intellegent to say...so why say it?
And wayne, i suggest you read up on the Inquisition, i think you'd feel right at home there.
The original explorers were in fact looking for heaven. they were people such as Ptolemy and copurnicus, but what they found changed the world. Even Oliver Cromwell organised a socalled space program.